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- in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5583
Dear Michael and “CW”,
As a person with a strong fascination for both underground mining and investing, I would like to offer a few thoughts here.
First of all, why would someone be so stupid to sell 8,100 shares at 25 cents? Well, actually, they MIGHT’VE been really stupid but not necessarily so. Sometimes people intentionally sell things at a loss so they can record a “capital loss” in order to offset expected capital gains in other areas thus reducing their overall tax bill. These shares might’ve even been held by a “micro cap” mutual fund that dumped them to lock in a capital loss. It is quite possible that the tax savings in this case matched or exceeded the loss they incurred on the mining shares – but, of course, I don’t know that’s what happened, it’s just a theory – that’s all.
This theory might also help explain why some idiot sold his shares for less than a penny a while back. That guy might’ve wanted to make his loss look as big as possible. His actions clearly hurt the other long-term shareholders but he was looking out for Number One, that’s all.
The next day (April 5th), I called my broker (Vanguard Brokerage Services) and placed an offer for 1,500 shares at 30 cents. I got ’em at 24 cents!
So, I guess MY question is why would anybody pay 89¢ for something when it can be had for 30¢, never mind 24¢?! Beats the heck outta me.
CW raised the issue of certificates. From what I understand, in today’s world there really aren’t too many compelling reasons (for the most part) to get a certificate in the first place. Shares held by a brokerage firm in “street name” for the benefit of their clients are no riskier than shares recorded in a person’s own name. Furthermore, once a shareholder takes possession of certificate shares, they can be awkward to ever sell again because the first thing you have to do is find a broker who can convert them back into street name shares then sell them on the open market. There might also be a fee for that in addition to the commission on the trade itself. Certificates can also be lost, stolen or accidently destroyed in a fire or by some other means. Getting them replaced can be a real hassle.
However, having said all that, I also believe there are two reasons that I might want a certificate.
One is to participate in a “Direct Stock Purchase and Dividend Reinvestment Plan” or “DRIP” on shares purchased *DIRECTLY* from the company. Most, if not all, DRIPs require that the shares are recorded in your own name and I do participate in a few of those.
The second reason for wanting a certificate is simply a matter of pride. Since the mine has no DRIP, or even a dividend as far as I know, then my only rationale for wanting a certificate is the second reason. I might just like to have the certificate in my possession, that’s all. Instead of having a piece of quartz with gold specks in it, I’d rather have a certificate to show – pride, that’s all.
I would also like to relate one really amusing thing here. When I bought my brokerage shares on Friday, the correspondent at Vanguard acted like she didn’t want to do it. She did everything she could to dissuade me. “This stock hasn’t traded in a long time”, she told me to which I countered, “That’s right, since December 5th to be exact”. Then, “Do you realize that once you get these shares, you might never be able to sell them or at the very least have a very hard time selling them?”
And then she went on, “blah, blah, blah, blah, blah”, I can’t even remember all the things she said.
But knowing that Vanguard is a champion of long-term investing and taking the long-term view, I finally stopped her and said, “Look, this mine has been in nearly continuous operation since 1896, so what is the problem here?” That kinda stopped her dead in her tracks!
I would like to close by saying that I genuinely want to own a small piece of this mine. I now have 1,500 shares in my IRA but I am not through. I want to try getting some certificate shares directly from you too if you are open to that idea. I am also really looking forward to coming to California to see the mine someday but I don’t know when that will be. I think it would be an absolute gas to enter the mine with a pick and shovel and help load a few cars if you would let me do that. That would certainly be a most wonderful experience which I would never forget. I might be terrified of heights but I am absolutely not claustrophobic in any way. Shoot!!!! I kinda wish I’d gone into mining now! Oh well, maybe in my next life:)
Regards,
Fred M. Cainin reply to: Stock exchange listing #5584Congratulations with you purchase of shares last Friday. I have heard a variety of complaints from people with standing orders with a broker that never gets filled at any price. Vanguard Brokerage Service did you well.
Are you aware that share custodians loan shares to those shorting a market? I was told that a shareholder who does not take a certificate has the right to exclude his shares from the loan market. Don’t know if this holds true today
When stock players are long, they tend to hold shares when the market turns against the position longer than when short and the market goes against them. Shorts are usually covered quicker when under water that a long position heading negative. Nano second and the new mirco-nano second computer traders don’t behave with emotion like a human trader. I’m not suggesting that the Sixteen to One is a likely candidate for computer trades now or in the future.
I think reasons for owning a certificate of ownership are more compelling today than when I first acquired a certificate as a ten year old. It is doubtful that all responsible for accounting today’s market volume have 100% accuracy. But you are right that the brokerage business continues to discount the value of ownership even to the point of seeking federal regulation against the issuance of a title. The actual cost is negligible to execute this service or request.
Fred, remember, the Company is not selling stock. Your last paragraph regarding getting some certificate shares directly from me needs clarification. It isn’t going to happen but it is easy. Click on Stock (eight down of the index on the left and place a bid. Follow the “Requirements For Buyers”. This is a service so read the section on ordering certificates as well. Our shareholder annual meeting is on June 15, 2013, in Alleghany. Please join the day. Also a shareholder will display his personal gold collection that Saturday and the following Sunday at the Underground Gold Miners Museum.
Our last dividend was 1995. We also established a direct purchase program for shareholders of record. Our next dividend will be related to an in-kind value of gold. There are benefits to the company and the shareholder for doing this. Vanguard should investigate Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. I do not know of a better long term gold mining company to risk ones precious investment capital.
By the way, you will get some pleasure from hanging your share certificate on view. I know right where all of mine are. I bought my first shares from my father in 1975.
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5582Yesterday, I was underground with engineers testing a new GPR device and just saw the entries below. I have no idea who sold or bought the 8,100 shares on April 4. It is puzzling. Why were they so stupid! All shareholders have received letters that report the stock exchange format on our web site.
Let’s check the numbers. Total shares (8,100) exchanged via a stock broker = $2,485. Listed sellers on company exchange = 2,150 at $.89 and 5,950 at $1.00 or $7,863.50. Various excuses can be offered: lazy stock brokers, dishonest stock brokers,(any professional has an obligation to effect the best trade for their customers); lazy or dishonest estate lawyers (same professional obligation); false trades to show either volume or “market price” ( below market price reality); or perhaps you have another idea.
Now that more new people have discovered the Sixteen to One mine,.a repeat of a well-publicized facts are worth repeating. Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. is not selling any stock to raise capital. It never has launched a public stock offering in its 100 year history. It will not consider offering its treasurer stock to raise money until two events occur: the need for major capital improvement/assets and an honest recognition of its share value.
So, who, how and why did 8,100 shares trade on April 4 at a loss of over 300% to the sellers?
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5581I am not recommending anything here – but if you buy some shares in a non-IRA account, see if they will let you take delivery (issue a certificate), if they do not charge too much.
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5580Yes, there were. I contacted my broker where I have my IRA (Vanguard) and tried to buy some shares but was told they couldn’t do it because there had been no recent activity and the security “was not in their system” what ever that meant.
So, I was told to “call back tomorrow”. We’ll see what happens today. I only plan to get a few hundred shares right now but after I get my hands on some additional cash, I intend to contact the mine directly and get a few thousand.
Gotta love it!
Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, Indianain reply to: Stock exchange listing #5579Today there were some trades, for what it’s worth…
DATE TIME PRICE VOLUME
04/04/1303:42 PM 0.2500 400
04/04/1301:06 PM 0.2500 1,000
04/04/1301:01 PM 0.3000 1,700
04/04/1311:12 AM 0.2500 5,000in reply to: From the Sixteen to One Archives #5578Michael,
That was a good letter! Did you ever get any kind of a response from Mr. Dye?
I can relate a personal story of my own that is almost unbelievably stupid. I heat my house in the winter in northern Indiana with “hard” anthracite coal. I know a couple of people around where I live who run local coal yards. One of these guys was lamenting to me how he could no longer get what had been some of the highest grade anthracite in the world. What happened was that the mine in eastern Pennsylvania got “inspected” by the government. Numerous “violations” were found and the mine was ordered to immediately get everything up to “code”.
Well, getting everything up to code would’ve cost this mine millions of dollars – millions that they did not have. So, what did they do? They closed the mine, of course.
I believe that miners should be able to expect to work in a safe environment. No one questions that. But are these miners actually “safer” now that they no longer have jobs? Is the family who owned the mine better off? And then there are consumers like me who have to pay higher prices for crummier coal on account of this. Yeah, this was a really great decision, huh?
I guess if the government really wants to make sure that no one will ever be killed in a mine accident again, then they should just ban all mining. Come to think of it, while they are at it they should ban automobiles, trucks, trains and airplanes too so that there will be no more accidents.
For better or worse, we all live in an unsafe world and people do need to be protected and their safety ensured but these rules and regulations are clearly over the top and out of hand.
Regards,
Fred M. Cain
Topeka, Indianain reply to: How to Approach Thin Veins & Cost #5577Michael,
Thanks again for another kind and well-thought out response! You touched on a few things that I’d like to respond to. But first of all, I’d like to explain the nature of my interest. I have been a life-long railfan or “train buff” – whatever you want to call me. As you probably realize, there is a very fine line between railroading and mining. Obviously, you are doing both!
I belong to a number of mining forums and have brought your mine and your website to their attention. Earlier, on one of the forums, I had asked about the use of tracks and rail equipment in mines and was told that this is still being done but “only in the smaller mines”. This is probably because smaller mines large enough to have graduated beyond wheelbarrows do not have the resources to build the very large drifts and passageways needed to accommodate the LCD’s or “rubber-tired wart hogs” as I call them.
But, as the Moore article makes clear, the very largest mines are also using rail where long hauls and large volumes exist. So, it might actually be the middle-sized mines where the use of “wart hogs” has replaced rail. One issue I can see is that with fewer mines depending on rail, the manufacturers cannot mass produce rail equipment in the same, larger volumes like they did in the past. This, in turn, drives up unit costs and perhaps discourages some miners from considering rail. This is a most unfortunate development and I don’t know what can be done to address that. Maybe it would help if our wonderful government would/could do more to encourage underground mining. At least that wouldn’t hurt, huh?
Which brings me to the next thing you touched on, the social implications of the mining industry. There’s an old quip that goes “if you’ve got it and it wasn’t grown, it came from a mine”. Well, maybe that’s exaggerated a bit since petroleum and gas-related products actually come from wells but we get the idea. So, why do otherwise well meaning people mistreat the mining industry? Simple ignorance, I’m afraid. You are doing what you can to fight back and set the record straight and I surely appreciate that. People need to also be made aware that not all mines are owned by huge, multi-national corporations. I see what you are doing in Alleghany as akin to running a family farm with some hired help. I suspect that you have a wonderful life back in there in the midst of some beautiful country. I have ridden Amtrak over the Donner Pass Line many times, so I know what this area looks like.
Finally, on the polymer wheels you mentioned, my understanding or interpretation of the Moore article was that they are restricted to the locomotives. The tracks and the wheels on the cars are still steel. This is akin to Lionel putting rubber tires on their model train locomotives to gain traction. The big roads like the Union Pacific can’t do that ’cause their engines are way too heavy so they rely on the use of track sand to gain traction.
In mines, the mining locomotives are much lighter so they are experimenting with polymer wheels to compensate for the lightness. The resistance in the polymer tires allows them to pull heavier loads on steeper grades. Or, at least, that was my understanding which could be mistaken. I guess we can try and get ahold of Moore and see if we can get some additional information.
You mentioned that the Moore article fails to discuss the process of laying rail. True, but here is a link to another online article I found, also British, that deals strictly with track:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/mines06.pdf
It’s 84 pages long and to be completely honest with you, Mike, I have yet to read through the entire piece. But there might be some information in there you can use.
In conclusion here, I would like to say that I would just love to come visit your mine. I would pay for the $600 tour in a heartbeat. I think I am also going to proceed with the stock purchase. You know, before my Mom died back in 2000, I used to make a couple of trips a year out to California. I wish now to high heaven I’d known about your operation back then. But we’ll see. I have wanted to make another trip for years.
Thanks again for the correspondence and whatever you do, keep on diggin’!
Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, IN
fredmcain@bringbackroute66.comin reply to: Gold Enters Major Bull Market #5575Gold $1567.20 OFF $32.20
Silver $27.08 OFF $ 0.94Interesting, as customer money in banks is being confiscated in Cyprus gold and silver are being sold. What to do with your savings? Mine are out of the banking system in property, stocks and coins. NEWS FLASH. The next time a bank fails here, they will reduce what you have on deposit with them if you happen to be one of the unlucky depositors. Hint, stay away from NYC based banks.
Mike Maloney and guest speak of gold and silver:
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5573Oh, Michael, wow! That’s an awful lot of pages to try and read through! Are there any you can quote or steer me to first that would at least clear up most of my confusion?
I would like to say that I am probably going to do this. I realize that there is always a certain amount of risk to any stock investment but this one would be a really fun stock to own.
Regards,
Fred M. Cainin reply to: How to Approach Thin Veins & Cost #5572Michael,
Oh, yes, I’m most definitely interested, that’s for sure! First of all I would like to say that I am most happy to learn of your decision to stay with tracks. I think that is a very good idea if for no other reason that it is historically consistent and appropriate with your older and truly historic operation.
But the other thing is, I’m not completely convinced that all the enthusiasm in the mining industry for going “trackless” is well placed or at least not in every case. Perhaps there are instances where trackless mines make sense. But from what I can see, trackless mines that employ large, rubber-tired “wart hogs” to haul ore demand much larger drifts and passageways and consume much larger amounts of fuel.
About the only real advantage I can see for going trackless is that you do not have to make an initial investment in the track itself. But isn’t track largely recyclable? So, I’m not sure.
From what I have been able to find, evidently there is still some interest in using tracks in large mines around the world. Here is a URL to an online article on the subject that I found here:http://www.infomine.com/library/publications/docs/InternationalMining/Moore2012k.pdf
It is a British article but it still has some interesting information in it nonetheless. I hope that the Sixteen To One keeps it track system and expands it to new depths. I saw from your schematic that you are now down to around 3,000 feet. The Homestake Mine in South Dakota was down to 8,000 feet when it was closed and the Lucky Friday Mine in Idaho is currently digging down to 9,000 feet. So, the Sixteen To One has a ways to go yet. It sounds to me like this mine has a bright future. Keep digging!
Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, Indianain reply to: How to Approach Thin Veins & Cost #5574Fred,
The article you mentioned in International Mining (March 2012) is a most comprehensive explanation of underground rail haulage. For most users of rail over diesel haulage systems, their daily tonnage exceeds the annual tonnage mined at the Sixteen to One when it employed over 100 miners. The large scale miners just shake their heads and usually smile when they come to Alleghany and discover how we are exploiting our deposit. Many times I have heard the comment, “I didn’t know anybody still mined like this.” I smile back and say, “have you ever seen our gold?’’
After reading this article, my appreciation of the value mining brings to social humanity grew. The numbers are so huge! Still it boggles the mind why the mining industry is treated poorly by otherwise well-meaning people. The industrial revolution, the trip to the moon and the wild advances in recent communications depend on the mineral extraction industry. Our rail operation even though it has continued over 100 years is insignificant; but the scope of haulage systems I just read about is mind boggling.
The article touched on an idea that captured my interest years ago. Identifying the use of polymer wheels to reduce friction and wear has been on my mind for years as an improvement for underground haulage. What type of track is under those poly wheels?
The article fails to discuss the process of laying rail for these monster locomotives: types of ties, spikes, bending availability of new products (not the 20 pound twenty foot lengths we use) and costs. If a market developed for the small mines, polymer wheels and rail will be an improvement over iron. It depends on how the polymer track conforms to curves… we have many in our levels. An advantage for us is that plastics won’t affect metal detectors, which are important to the Sixteen to One.
in reply to: Clips from Alleghany #5568The annual shareholder’s meeting will be held on Saturday June 15th this year. Today is the date of record.
The museum also will have its annual gold show that weekend. The museum has a new website under construction at the same address: http://www.undergroundgold.com
Very warm weather for over two weeks now. A thunder storm over the weekend knocked out the radio repeater on Ruby Bluff. All of our local fire departments depend on this repeater to be able to communicate. Lee Brown the fire chief from Downieville (grew up in Alleghany) spent his Easter morning making the journey from Downieville to Ruby Bluff via snowmobile? (Need to ask him.) to fix the problem which he did! By 2pm the radios were back online. It takes many dedicated volunteers to keep emergency services operational in rural areas. In urban areas it is taken for granted that somebody will be paid to respond when you need help. Not so here. What is worrisome to Scoop is that the age of our volunteers keeps increasing with very few (if any) volunteers age 39 or younger. In the case of Alleghany the youngest volunteer is 47 and the oldest is pushing 70.
in reply to: How to Approach Thin Veins & Cost #5571Response to Fred regarding mines with track:
Our deposit is best mined using 18 gauge rail. Over the years track size has varied. It is identified by weight: 12 pound, 16 pound, 20 pound. The number is the weight of three feet. Prices vary. Our favorite is 16 pound but no company is rolling 16 pound anymore. We buy 20 pound now. Sections of the mine have the other sizes.Most underground engineers have decided to abandon the rail system. A limited number of small California mines are operating with rail. There are over thirty mines of levels, shafts and winzes in the Sixteen to One. While some advantages exist to quit using track, it remains the best method of mining this unusual gold deposit.
Fred, your entry will be moved to the FORUM topic,How to approach thin veins. Your interest is appreciated.
in reply to: EMPIRE STRIKES BACK #5567I can remember years ago – back in the 1980’s, I think it was, – I flew out to California from back East to visit my parents. They took me to the Empire Mine. Was I ever excited and full of anticipation!
Sadly, after a tour of the grounds and the otherwise excellent museum, I realized there was no underground tour! Was I ever let down! What a rip-off, I thought to myself!
Has that changed? What is/was the “Empire Mine Adit Project”?
Regards,
Fred M. Cainin reply to: How to Approach Thin Veins & Cost #5566Does the Original Sixteen to One Mine still use ore cars and railway tracks in the mines?
Are there any other mines in California still doing that?
Regards,
Fred M. Cainin reply to: Stock exchange listing #5565Is it possible to buy shares in the mine on an open exchange through a broker? The reason I’d want to do that is because I’d like to add the stock to my IRA if that’s possible.
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5570Let’s take a breath and review the stock market and marketing of Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. Help will be found there.
I just entered FORUM topic “Stock exchange listing”, which I have not done in a while. Please do so after reading this entry. The topic began May 2002 (page #9). Read from early dates forward to page #1. Your answers and more are there. It is time well spent. Shortly this topic, “buying a share” will be moved to Stock exchange in order to keep our FORUM manageable as a custodian of information, useful information in friendly deployment.
Currently, there are no buyers (bidders) on the STOCK topic. Anyone may contact the company and place a bid (look at the instructions on the web site under (Stock). The Company does not charge a commission for maintaining this public book.
Many would like to know who the sellers are because the pink or gray markets deal with brokers, custodians (transfer agents) or those who hold their shares in street name. Many of our shareholders have asked the seller to provide a share certificate. I personally sign each share certificate, which goes to our transfer agent to fulfill a buy/sell transaction. There is no safer way to hold ownership in a public company.
After you have reviewed the Stock exchange listing topic and have unanswered questions, please let the FORUM know. There are sophisticated investors with shares and may provide you with expanded insight to the colorful markets.
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5569Scoop,
I don’t understand this. The website shows a pending trade of $0.89 and yet OSTO shares are trading on the “Pink Sheets” for $0.20 each. How can that be? Is that the same company or a different company? Or, is it perhaps the same company but a different class of shares?
That sounds to me like a big spread.
Regards,
Fred M. Cain,
Topeka, INin reply to: Miscellaneous #5564Politicians will ONLY make decisions that protect their vested positions. It is NEVER about representing the people, what is best for the nation, just for their own survival. Change will ONLY come when there is no choice.
I would never trust these people to wash my clothes. It would be way too complicated with all the colors and what-not for them to make a decision.
Martin Armstrong
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5563Why would you not have it? The company has existed since 1911. You are responsible for your assets. If you bought it from a broker, ask your broker.
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5562If I had bought a share through middle school years ago. Would I still have it?
in reply to: Miscellaneous #5561From King World news:
ric King: “You have warned recently that the IMF cannot afford to make a misstep or the West would be faced with unprecedented financial destruction and massive bank runs.”
Sinclair: “If Lagarde and the IMF sustain their position that the Troika has the right to tax, confiscate, or haircut the depositor, whatever you want to call it, then what the Troika has announced to the world is that the sacrosanct nature of deposits no longer exists.
This puts the entire concept of ‘insurance’ on deposits in question. This will mean that deposits of size in banks will move to seek other areas of safekeeping because the banking institutions will purely be seen as houses of confiscation.
The dream that no depositor would be hurt by the collapse of the financial world, based on fraudulent over-the-counter-derivatives, triggered by the flushing of Lehman, will be exposed as an absolute and total lie. This will trigger tremendous runs on banks any time that a bank or that system has any financial pressure.
This has the potential to create a revolution. A misstep by Lagarde and the IMF here could do far more damage than what the world witnessed after the collapse and liquidation of Lehman. That is what is at stake here.
The seriousness of this upcoming decision by the IMF, should they in fact decide to steal from depositors, I firmly believe that Mrs. Lagarde and the IMF will go down in history as causing far more financial devastation than the flushing of Lehman.
The story in Cyprus right now is not about capital controls, that was an obvious side effect of this disaster, the story will be this upcoming decision by the IMF. God help us if Mrs. Lagarde and the IMF make one of the greatest mistakes in history.”
in reply to: Miscellaneous #5560Forced loans and abandoning the rule of law
in reply to: Gold Enters Major Bull Market #5559Gold $1606.90 UP $14.00
Silver $28.90 UP $ 0.13When printing money isn’t enough
Jim,
We have all heard by now the 10% confiscation of deposits made by Cyprus by order of the European Central Bank.
Also the coming onetime special property tax in Italy, as well as the message this weekend coming out of Madrid that a similar confiscation of wealth form bank depositors may be in the offing.
Now Switzerland may be considering a special bank depositor tax by paying negative interest rates (it’s basically the same as in Cyprus where the government takes 10% of your bank deposits).
Here in the USA, we have zero interest rates. All we have to do is let them drop to negative interest rates, and we’ll have confiscation of money. It’s really no different than Cyprus. If we think it can’t happen here, we may be blind. These situations, happening globally, are indicative of deep, underlying, irresolvable problems that will come home to roost.
CIGA Wolfgang
in reply to: Ideal Time for Facts #5558Michael and all…a short comment in view of the post below…I’m adding a few additional assets to your list:
Optimism,
Potential,
Pride in ownership,
Vision unobscured by crap,
Constitutional perspective,
Success despite the effers,
No worrries about truck dents,
Smiles,
Endurance,
Underground and above vision,
A good stack of firewood,
Faith in wisdom we know,
And the optimism to share,
Wisdom to call “deep”,
Wisdom to seek,
Wisdom to challenge adversity,
Wisdom to see it!!!Now that, my friends, is true!
in reply to: Ideal Time for Facts #5557A new report by the World Gold Council examines the growing trend of central banks’ actively looking to diversify their reserve portfolios. While the dollar is still the primary global currency, its long-term dominance is less certain. In response, central banks are reducing allocations to US dollars and euros while increasing purchases of traditional assets such as gold and Japanese yen and new alternatives including Chinese renminbi.
The official reserves of global central banks have grown from $2 trillion in 2000 to more than $12 trillion in 2012. During this same twelve-year period the data shows significant shifts away from the US dollar while the share of “other” currencies in reserve composition has tripled in absolute terms since 2008.
Gold has a long history as a reserve asset for central banks, and as such is considered a traditional one. Gold is statistically uncorrelated with other traditional reserves and new alternatives, making it one of the most important assets for diversifying out of the US dollar and euro. In line with this trend, central bank gold buying in the fourth quarter of 2012 marked the eighth consecutive quarter of net purchases by the official sector and the highest level since 1964.
Gold’s deep liquidity is attributed to its global nature and its role as both a currency and an asset with multiple uses. While some treat gold as a item to trade, a minority think of gold as an asset to hold. Therein rests a key difference when gold investing is a topic of conservation.
Personally, I have no euros or yuans (the division of legal tender in China). I do have dollars and gold but my greatest asset is ownership in Original Sixteen to One Mine, Inc. It is my reserve asset: real estate, timber, gold and valuable subtleties not included on a balance sheet. So, if global central banks are accumulating gold as part of their reserve portfolios, it means more to the economy than the hype one reads or hears. Gold just won’t go away no matter how or who blasts its worth.
in reply to: INTERSTATE COMMERCE AND SMALL MINES #5556Hi Mike,
You need to send your complaint to your congressman. There are some congressmen who are now investigating the E.P.A. for there prejudice to there public responsibility to be honorable to the science of there concerns. Youe complaint meets some of the same criteria for these inspectors.
in reply to: INTERSTATE COMMERCE AND SMALL MINES #5555A large backlog of adjudication for MSHA citations exists. Special lawyers were hired to shuffle the papers and make them disappear. A strong case is made for an operator to ‘bite-the-bullet’ and pay penalties to avoid the expense and time to defend unwarranted citations. It is a bad idea! Not only money is at stake. MSHA keeps a history of citations and has a hit list for repeated offenders. Consequences are higher fines and more inspections. Another consequence is more threatening: public relations. The press can take a mine’s history of citations and blow it out of proportion regarding real dangers to the miner. It happened to us. Alleghany miners are okay with MSHA. They want the inspectors to evaluate real situations and stop speculating and assuming. We want Chicken Little to die.
Doug works out of Denver and is a special solicitor for MSHA. He is not the problem. Here is my reply to his recent correspondence.
Doug,
In response to your email of March 11, 2013:It disturbs the Alleghany miners that MSHA Western Office has ignored repeated requests for post inspection meetings regarding the batch of citations received between September 6, 2012 and October 28, 2012. It is a federal requirement in order to efficiently use time. It is also required by policy. The specious citations cost Original Sixteen to One Mine, a price greater than to your agency. It is US citizens, who pay for having safe mines and they are getting the shaft. Right now MSHA continues to make no effort to rectify serious problems. Ample evidence exists that the Sixteen is not the only victim of MSHA’s malevolent behaviors.
If MSHA’s upper management were interested or doing its job, it would discover numerous situations in Idaho, Alaska, Nevada, California and Arizona of incompetence. How do I know this? In preparing the brief just filed, I contacted the last mine sites that your inspector/witness used to expand his lack of experience. Your witness, Josh Love, is unqualified to opine about conditions and practices at the Sixteen to One. Call those mines you asked him about and find out for yourself. The time to expose MSHA’s public fraud continues.
I wish you and those solicitors in Denver you work with were adjudicating truth and justice regarding these foul citations popping up in the West. The mining industry needs you! It was a pleasure working with you; however that you sincerely think your view of MSHA and its execution of regulating the Sixteen to One mine is just disturbs me. These unqualified inspectors are not in America’s best interest. Their supervisors (middle management) have some explaining to do. Let’s get them up to testify at the next hearing. Congress will be appalled once it learns how its legislation is misused.
Your statement, “I hope you understand where I’m coming from” needs some meat. Where is your client coming from? Why not ask Wyatt Andrews (Vacaville California district office manager)or better yet his overseer, Neal Merifield (Arlington VA office). Each of inspector Edminister’s opinionated observations of unsafe violation sucks! Is Assistant Secretary of Labor, Mr. Main aware of how harmful his agency has become to the West coast gold miners?
The time for Joe A. Main (MSHA Chief) to take an interest was years ago. His speech in Pittsburg on June 13, 2012, is lost to the West. Is he clueless about California’s gold belt mining? Congress did it right when it demanded that mines be judged according to their specific nature. We are not in the coal business. We are not soft rock miners. Nasty operators are not abusing its workforce out est. West coast gold miners are almost extinct. MSHA is one of the executioners.
The big excuse uttered by MSHA’s field agents is, “We’re just doing our job. Orders from above, you know.” If these citations go to a hearing, it will be because upper management not the Sixteen to One is unreasonable. In today’s economy a vibrant gold industry in California will help every Californian and maybe even those in Washington DC. The enthusiasm will be infectious.
You ask me to expand our position on each citation. Why? I’ve been trying to meet with middle management. They are in charge and paid to review the field work of inspectors under their direction. They are the ones empowered to correct wrong doings.
Well, the buck stops with the new Secretary of Labor, appointed by President Obama. The shortcomings inflicted on miners and operators continue unabated even though MSHA management must be aware of their existence. Taking unwarranted citations to a hearing is a costly way to solve a problem; however if the problems out West continue to be ignored, Joe Main must be informed.
Now and in the future responsible operators must demand a hearing to settle grievances. Ask for a hearing every time the conditions demand it. The Western District has problems that former inspectors are aware of. I know because many have confided in me. Most competent inspectors dislike the bosses’ attitude. It is demoralizing. Too many times I have heard, ‘Oh just go with it. Nothing can be done.” Bull!
Our specific gold mining niche is closing due to abuses by MSHA in carrying forth its mandate. Our operation is specifically conducted according to the deposit of gold formed over 120,000,000 years ago. Our company (THE OPERATOR) carries out its exploitation with over 100 years of experience. These conditions are relevant for judgment by inspectors. If they never work in an underground mine, how can they pass judgment? If their experience is only in coal, how can they pass judgment?
Sincerely,
Mikein reply to: Clips from Alleghany #5554Rain, snow, hail and sun warm enough to act like a lizard on a rock pile. This has been today’s weather report from Alleghany. The Sacramento news TV stations pay weathermen to inform us. Scoop can only laugh when the little chart shows the sun partly shadowed with water drops, and flakes (snow). Then the announcer comes on and says something like this: partly cloudy with chance of rain, snow at higher elevations, intermittent thunder and lightning possible. They get paid for this???!!!
Here’s a mining report from Alleghany: gold located at different places, a lot in specific locations and none at all in others; chances of finding it daily except when no one is looking for color.
A fellow found a 1833 gold coin recently nearby. No gold seekers were in Sierra County in 1833, so speculation goes that some mine must have lost it while panning. In any condition the rumor is spreading that it’s worth $16,000. In mint condition the price may exceed $100,000.
The traveling vet came to town last Tuesday. He set up in the Sixteen to One office to give two cats shots and pull a tooth from another cat. A big dog stayed outside and took a shot in his rear.
In June road work will begin to replace the surface from Ridge road to the ‘Y’ in
Alleghany. All bids exceeded the estimate. The lowest bidder came in at $1.9 million. Changes are taking place to settle the difference of under $200,000.in reply to: Miscellaneous #5553History stands as witness that it should be AGAINST the law for politicians to ever BORROW. This is the way ALL governments perish. It is the triumph of hope over experience. It is like the person who gets married after the 10th divorce. When will we ever learn – (1) term limits to restore real representation, and (2) no borrowing. Anyone who buys government debt deserves to lose everything. They are the ultimate fools. You do not even get a penny on the dollar when government goes broke. Even clients at M.F. Global got something back.
Martin Armstrong
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5551Yes! A class action lawsuit. You own a hard asset… a gold mine. A transfer should cost what is on our stock topic, about $25. The book work could cost ten to fifteen minutes and then a process of acceptable notification. The investment community knows that the volume of transactions created an impossible accounting nightmare. I believe that if everyone asked for a stock certificate for even the DOW stocks, the shortage of shares would be as high as 40%. Does that make American stockholders comfortable?
Go ahead and ask for your shares and let me us know the results. In the good old days, brokerage houses did this at no charge.
in reply to: Stock exchange listing #5550Brokerage fims have now moved to charging a substantial fee for issuing a certificate–often now as much as $500. Any advice on other means to take delivery of shares currently held in street name?
in reply to: Ideal Time for Facts #5552Two articles published in California’s oldest weekly newspaper were placed in the NEWS
heading on the left side of the website today. The “Sixteen to One Optimistic” article
hit the front page. “Losing Sight of the Goals” was prominently placed on the back page.Comments or questions are appreciated on the FORUM.
in reply to: Gold Enters Major Bull Market #5549The necessity to own gold
Comments by Martin Armstrong:
Question: Has any government ever survived a debt crisis?
The answer to that is ABSOLUTELY no. This is simply how government always die and we do not speak Latin, Ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Chinese, or Ancient Babylonian. They have ALWAYS, and without exception, used the same Obama Logic going on right now. They have routinely seen themselves as the exception to history. Such arrogance knows no bounds.
in reply to: Clips from Alleghany #5547Thank you, SCOOP, for some additional context. When I reread the article, I came to two possible inferences:
The second to last paragraph includes the phrase, “other pressures than local and stockholder interest.” Could this imply personal challenges whether financial or succession related? The last paragraph then refers to “quiet for too long dealing with…” could imply nearing a settlement or truce with the various agencies.
I’m hoping for the later as I only wish the best for our leader of the firm.
Any further “scoop” from you, SCOOP?
in reply to: Gold Enters Major Bull Market #5546Today whistleblower Andrew Maguire told King World News that Eastern central banks have taken a massive 225 tons out of the physical gold market on this recent takedown. This is the first in a series of interviews with Maguire lifting the curtain on what is going on behind the scenes in the ongoing gold and silver war which continues to rage.
Eric King: “Give me an idea of the amount of tonnage being purchased on this decline.”
Maguire: “If you look at the daily tonnage being drawn down, we’re (now) looking at 20 to 30 tons per day of real allocations in dollar and euro gold. Shanghai delivery volumes have been extremely large as well on a daily basis. That’s just what we see clearing here through London and Shanghai….
“There is a lot of direct purchasing also going on. What I’m going to say to you is that it’s certainly in the 100+ ton area (this week alone). And that’s real physical (gold).”
Eric King: “Andrew, I know you were talking about just this week alone on the smash and what kind of gold central banks were taking out of the gold market, but what about when we expand that into the last 3 or 4 weeks? What are we looking at there?”
Maguire: “There’s at least 225 tons that have been drawn down. That is a huge amount of physical (gold). That’s gold which has to be found (in order to be delivered), that’s probably got (existing) claims on it. But as I said to you before, there was a crisis situation, and I think they were damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. They were forced to take this price down simply because the price was about to break out.
We had a very credible rumor of another CME broker dealer going down. This was before (gold) was looking to break $1,700. Who did this (takedown) help? Anyone who was short bought a bit more time. And anyone who was foolish enough to increase their margin long position was taken out at a better profit by the shorts.”
When asked about bids in the physical gold market Maguire responded, “It is exponentially increasing. The central banks and the sovereigns look at exactly the same information that we do. They are looking at how much paper selling power is left, and in whose hands it is (weak or strong long and short positions).
If they see the bullion banks at the lowest point of short positioning, and they see the managed money and the weaker hands holding the highest level of short positions, obviously they are in the market (accumulating large amounts of physical gold).
It really just needs to play itself out here. The result is going to be violent because it is a bubble short position, meaning the market is shorted by weak hands beyond anything I have seen before.”
in reply to: Clips from Alleghany #5545To Ryan below:
The agreement with Quartz view was negotiated last fall. Scoop knows Mike and company are reluctant to bring up mine doings that are iffy or speculative. Most topics in mining are speculative. There must be a reason for the Mountain Messenger article on the front page. Did you see the one on the back page? Any comment?
Scoop now speculates. The price for an ounce of gold is four times greater than the price at that famous million dollar day. Hello!! Let’s go find some. The company made profit at $400 an ounce. It’s looking for new technology.
The Mountain Messenger, an avant-garde publication, raises the importance of technological improvement rocking the Sixteen’s gold and quartz. What better rag to make a disclosure?
Mark Twain wrote for the Messenger. The owner, Don Russel,l has similar tendencies or quirks. Twain wrote, “Apparently there is nothing that cannot happen.” Don’t know what he meant but it sounds Russellish.Scoop has been a Sixteen to One observer a long time. Rarely does it do something without deep reason. Reread the last two paragraphs for an answer and let Scoop know if you have one.
in reply to: Clips from Alleghany #5544I received the Feb 14 Mountain Messenger today down in the low lands. I see the article on OAU and the recent agreement with a radar firm.
Is there any more information beyond the newspaper article?
Also, beyond the GPR agreement, any update on possible finance raising to get back to mining?
Thank you.
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